|  | Topic : Cam timing marks & cam chain slack |  |
| | | HeydarAZ | | Set |  | | Reg. Date | : | 08/05/2023 | | Posts | : | 12 | | Location | : | United Kingdom |
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| | Posted : 08 May 2023 - 22:37 Post title : Cam timing marks & cam chain slack | | | Hello, I'm Heydar from the UK and last year I bought a beautiful Triumph Thunderbird Storm 2012. I recently past 12,000 ODO marker and set about checking valve clearance. 6 out of 8 were out. Changed and now in spec.
Decompressions are good.
Got the3 Triumph tools needed for the job.
Prior to this I had the following symptoms:
Loud clunk on start up (when left overnight)
Ticking noises that weren't there at first from topend.
Gap in throttle response at low rpm(not all the time)
However, after setting the locking pin in the crank I notice a lot of slack on the cam chain (tensioner in place) & cam timing marks pointing out from the ladder and not inverted like the manual states. I set it all back how I found it but the bike struggled on idle and dies on throttle. Furthermore I could hear the cam chain hitting the bracket.
Took another look and I could see where it was hitting on the bracket.
I'm the second owner so unsure of what has been done in the past. My question is. Should I set the timing marks to what the service manual says rather than how I found it?
The chain slack was with 20 pins between the timing marks but now set at 18 with noticeable improvement.... is this correct?
Any insight would be helpful and greatly appreciated 
Chain slack vids:
Link
Link
Top pic is after setting as per service manual and bottom is how I found it.
 
| | Post edited by HeydarAZ on 08 May 2023 - 23:55 |
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| | | Leethal | | Zeus | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 24/01/2011 | | Posts | : | 6,407 | | Location | : | Australia |
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| | Posted : 09 May 2023 - 03:48 Post title : Re: Cam timing marks & cam chain slack (Re: HeydarAZ) | | | I have never counted pins between the timing marks, they never exactly line up with the cast protrusions on the cam ladder. I suggest you go to the How To section, open any of Dr Moomans threads, click on the link provided, usually at the top of the page on his first post, down load a copy and read. he has done an outstanding job with descriptions and photos.
| Experience is something you get just after you needed it 
1600,Foran Razorbacks, Meerkat bypass, Dyno tune, real headlight,plenty of chrome,switchblade pegs, Hagon Nitro shocks & Ikon progressive fork springs etc. Scorpion Western Low handlebars. PH adjustable fork caps.
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| | | HeydarAZ | | Set | | | Reg. Date | : | 08/05/2023 | | Posts | : | 12 | | Location | : | United Kingdom |
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| | Posted : 09 May 2023 - 14:33 Post title : Re: Cam timing marks & cam chain slack (Re: Leethal) | | | Hi Leethal thanks for the reply...
I have done just that and what a great guid he has made. I set everything back to how I found it (although) chain was slack when I removed the cam cover.
This thing is, my bike was not running great which is more of a question if the setup was incorrect in the first place.
Have you ever set the timing marks back to what the Service Manual says, even though you did not find them that way?
How much slack should there be between the cams?
| | Post edited by HeydarAZ on 09 May 2023 - 15:07 |
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| | | Leethal | | Zeus | | | | Reg. Date | : | 24/01/2011 | | Posts | : | 6,407 | | Location | : | Australia |
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| | Posted : 09 May 2023 - 19:47 Post title : Re: Cam timing marks & cam chain slack (Re: HeydarAZ) | | | No I have never found them to not be the same, that is , different from exhaust to inlet, they never line up exactly with the protrusions on the ladder casting, but are always even. There should be no slack at the top of the chain once the tensioner has been engaged. Make sure the tensioner has been set up correctly as per the manual and is oriented the right way. I believe that it can be put in upside down.
How was the bike running when you bought it?
Describe the symptoms if it was running poorly.
If you have done the valve adjustments then you would know that the crankshaft has to be in the correct position so the timing pin can locate properly. This can mean many many turns of the crank before things line up properly.
The large clunk you mention on a cold start has been experienced with a few people, including me, and what we worked out was that if the operator did not have the correct tool for holding the flywheel when the flywheel retaining bolt was torqued up and used a combination of rear brake and first gear to hold everything, this action had an effect on the torque compensator causing the loud clunk, once the correct procedure was done, the noise went away. Sounds like some of the Harleys when they first start and you can feel it through the bike.
If the cam timing is wrong it should show up if you remove the pin, turn the engine over by hand rotating it through a few cycles and then reinsert the pin.
| Experience is something you get just after you needed it
1600,Foran Razorbacks, Meerkat bypass, Dyno tune, real headlight,plenty of chrome,switchblade pegs, Hagon Nitro shocks & Ikon progressive fork springs etc. Scorpion Western Low handlebars. PH adjustable fork caps.
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| | | HeydarAZ | | Set | | | Reg. Date | : | 08/05/2023 | | Posts | : | 12 | | Location | : | United Kingdom |
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| | Posted : 10 May 2023 - 22:03 Post title : Re: Cam timing marks & cam chain slack (Re: Leethal) | | | Yes the cam chain tensioner is the right way up and new spring installed for good measure.
Bike was good until 3 months of use.
After 3 months use, it started making the clunk when I started the bike. Since then, every start on cold there was a clunk followed with noticeable louder ticking sounds from head.
Slight delay on throttle from 0 to quater twist.
Thats when I did the valve clearance to find all 4 inlets were out and 2 exhaust.
Locked crank in with pin and chain is loose between both cams.
Setting cams how I found them and how the manual shows; they all come back around in correct position after the ungodly amount of turns 
| | Post edited by HeydarAZ on 10 May 2023 - 22:20 |
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| | | Leethal | | Zeus | | | | Reg. Date | : | 24/01/2011 | | Posts | : | 6,407 | | Location | : | Australia |
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| | Posted : 11 May 2023 - 02:54 Post title : Re: Cam timing marks & cam chain slack (Re: HeydarAZ) | | | Ok, so how does it run now that all is back to how it should be and valve clearances are correct?
You should do a diagnostics with TuneEcu or Dealer Tool and check all the sensor values, !AC, TPS, injector pulses, throttle body balance etc.
| Experience is something you get just after you needed it
1600,Foran Razorbacks, Meerkat bypass, Dyno tune, real headlight,plenty of chrome,switchblade pegs, Hagon Nitro shocks & Ikon progressive fork springs etc. Scorpion Western Low handlebars. PH adjustable fork caps.
| | Post edited by Leethal on 11 May 2023 - 02:55 |
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| | | Slcharger | | Jupiter | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 18/02/2016 | | Posts | : | 1,661 | | Location | : | Denmark |
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| | Posted : 11 May 2023 - 07:24 Post title : Re: Cam timing marks & cam chain slack (Re: HeydarAZ) | | | As many of you know, I changed the chain tensioner from hydraulic to static in 2017, just to get rid of that ratteling. It is easy done, just replace the piston with a bolt, and plug the oil hole.
Pictures are distorted, I don't know why, is from my album.
Oil supply blocked.
Unfortunal I don't have a picture of the modified tensioner, and to my knowledge you can't buy it.
The below is for a bonneville if I remember right, and don't fit the bird.
Kim
| Big Bird, Bordeaux with " Celtic theme " Airbrush, 2010, 1700CC, ABS, 65.000 km. Lowered with Nitros rear shocks, Linear front springs, Burchard forward footrest kit, Kuryakyn ISO grips, LOTS of chrome, SLcharger REV2+ tune, Modified Cee Baileys windshield, Oil pressure gauge, Air box elimination kit, Portet cylinderhead, Intake cam advanved 8 degree, Exhaust cam retarded 2 degree, 10.5 C/R, Knock sensor, Machined flywheel, DNA Chrome Spoke wheels, 18x8.5"- AVON AV72- 240/40/18, 21x3.5"- AVON AV71- 120/70/21, Corbin seat with backrest, 20W fork oil. Hiflo HF303RC oil filter, Penrite Racing 20-20W60 engine oil, Adjurl lights.
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| | | HeydarAZ | | Set | | | Reg. Date | : | 08/05/2023 | | Posts | : | 12 | | Location | : | United Kingdom |
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| | Posted : 11 May 2023 - 17:51 Post title : Re: Cam timing marks & cam chain slack (Re: Leethal) | | | I have been a bit hesitant in putting it back. I work in a motorcycle dealership which luckily has a fully operated dealership garage. There are a few ex-triumph mechanics in there. I had the bike delivered there today for some input. I will be working on it tomorrow and Saturday. I will let you know my findings
I will look into the dealer tool as well.
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| | | HeydarAZ | | Set | | | Reg. Date | : | 08/05/2023 | | Posts | : | 12 | | Location | : | United Kingdom |
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| | Posted : 11 May 2023 - 17:53 Post title : Re: Cam timing marks & cam chain slack (Re: Slcharger) | | | Hi SLcharger, thanks for the advise. I'll see how it gets on the next few days and might have to take this into consideration
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| | | HeydarAZ | | Set | | | Reg. Date | : | 08/05/2023 | | Posts | : | 12 | | Location | : | United Kingdom |
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| | Posted : 12 May 2023 - 18:19 Post title : Re: Cam timing marks & cam chain slack (Re: HeydarAZ) | | | ??????UPDATE??????
I have had it looked at and slack seems ok. Tomorrow I will put it back and starting the bike. The question everyone was asking is that why are the timing marks not set the same as what we find in the manual.
Is this an oversight? Why does the service manual show thr inverted? 
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| | | Leethal | | Zeus | | | | Reg. Date | : | 24/01/2011 | | Posts | : | 6,407 | | Location | : | Australia |
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| | Posted : 12 May 2023 - 18:57 Post title : Re: Cam timing marks & cam chain slack (Re: HeydarAZ) | | | Not sure what you mean by inverted?
Section 3.9 in the SM.
| Experience is something you get just after you needed it
1600,Foran Razorbacks, Meerkat bypass, Dyno tune, real headlight,plenty of chrome,switchblade pegs, Hagon Nitro shocks & Ikon progressive fork springs etc. Scorpion Western Low handlebars. PH adjustable fork caps.
| | Post edited by Leethal on 12 May 2023 - 19:00 |
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| | | HeydarAZ | | Set | | | Reg. Date | : | 08/05/2023 | | Posts | : | 12 | | Location | : | United Kingdom |
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| | Posted : 13 May 2023 - 07:02 Post title : Re: Cam timing marks & cam chain slack (Re: Leethal) | | | Yes I ment to say the timing marks pointing inwards. How come bikes out there are not set the same as the manual?
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| | | HeydarAZ | | Set | | | Reg. Date | : | 08/05/2023 | | Posts | : | 12 | | Location | : | United Kingdom |
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| | Posted : 13 May 2023 - 18:11 Post title : Re: Cam timing marks & cam chain slack (Re: Leethal) | | | I started the bike after setting-up the cams as per the service manual and it starts and runs great. No bogging out and great performance.
It's decat with OEM exhausts and I hear a bit more popping. Still ticking from the chain but meh!
Fan didn't kick in at all after runnig for 1hr 
| | Post edited by HeydarAZ on 14 May 2023 - 10:43 |
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